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Jacques Fred Petrus & Mauro Malavasi

Interviews

Davide Romani

 How did you become a member of Goody Music Production? Amongst musicians it was told that in Ferrara there was a young, quite good bass player: it was me. Singer Marzio Vincenti got in touch with me and introduced me to Petrus and Malavasi. I was only 19 years old then and I had never played Disco music before. In the studio they asked me to play the bass parts of the song “I’m A Man”. I enjoyed the agressive sound of the Disco music, it was a very fascinating experience. So I stayed at Goody Music Production and I developed my personal bass sound. I collaborated on many projects like Rudy, Change, B.B.&Q. Band, High Fashion et cetera. Mauro Malavasi also persuaded me to compose songs besides playing the bass guitar. So, in 1979 when ‘Il capo’ (the leader) Malavasi was in the U.S. preparing new projects, I started composing tracks. I had never written songs before but the results were positive. My first composition was the Change hit “A Lover’s Holiday”, my second “The Glow Of Love”, followed by “Starlette”, “Paradise”, “Hold Tight”, and so on…

 Were you influenced by the seductive Chic sound?  I must admit that I was influenced by the sophisticated productions of Nile Rodgers & Bernard Edwards when I composed songs. Their innovative harmonic solutions in those days appealed me. Their work was incredibly infectious and musically rested upon a solid foundation of Nile's rhythm guitar and Bernard's bass playing. They redefined Disco music. After the success of the first Change record many artists and producers came to our studio to see us at work. One of those visitors was Nile Rodgers, this was a great pleasure for me. Even Disco producer Giorgio Moroder was impressed and he absolutely wanted me to record for him but unfortunately the musical association didn't happen because of the exclusive agreement with the Goody Music Orchestra.

 How can you explain that an Italian is so good at making black dancemusic.  I have no explanation. I’m indeed a white man from a little Italian town called Ferrara. But in my heart I’ve always favoured black music. To give you an idea, I have never bought any Italian CD unless for professional reasons. I feel like an American producer living in Italy, a ‘black’ sheep among the Italian producers. Making black music has always given me most satisfaction in my musical career.

 During the early eighties you worked with a lot of accomplished American studio musicians like Kashif. Who made the biggest impression on you? I had the opportunity and satisfaction to work with many American top musicians in New York. I can’t tell you who I preferred because there were too many talented people. But sure Kashif had a very unique musical touch and a very good taste.

 What was the usual procedure when you recorded songs?  Before we entered the studio with the other musicians we knew what we wanted. We had the basic track worked out. Usually I prepared everything concerning the compositions and arrangements, except for the lead guitar because I can’t play the guitar, I’m a bass player. Generally the tracks were constructed in Italy. The vocals were recorded and mixed in the U.S.

 In 1983 you and Mauro Malavasi broke with producer Jacques Fred Petrus. What happened and why did you never produce black music again in the U.S.? There was definitely a conflict with Petrus. He didn’t pay me anymore in the end. Petrus was only thinking about making money without recognizing my work's merit. So I stopped the collaboration and continued my professional carreer in Italy where I was busy working with Italian artists. Of course I regretted the impossibility of going on making black music in the U.S.. Now I realize that I made a big mistake there.

 What do you know about the tragic end of producer Jacques Fred Petrus?  Jacques Fred Petrus was shot dead at home in his native country Guadeloupe about 1986 I think. He was hit by eight bullets. I don't believe the Maffia connection. Unfortunately wealthy people do not only have friends... I think the serious troubles started when he went back to Guadeloupe.

 What is your opinion about today’s black music and the frequent sampling of music?  Evidently the clock has turned full circle, in the sense that I’m not surprised that the musical trace I left behind has turned up again. My songs have been used by black superstars like Aretha Franklin, R. Kelly and Janet Jackson. For a songwriter this is the ultimate honour.
But considering massive sampling in dancemusic today, I think we’re in the front of a new wave of young incompetent producers who don’t know much about making music, except reproducing. Modern sampling technology means that whole sections of old records are being filched wholesale to prop up artists whose talent is dubious. In order to have success you need to have new ideas. The capacity of making music is not enough. Occasionally, something interesting and original is achieved, but mostly the whole thing smacks of creative laziness and musical inexperience. However there are excellent groups with courage that I admire and respect, capable musicians who really perform their music. I think of Incognito, one of  the best groups around in the last years. I also adore Latin and Brazilian music as well as acid-jazz and funk. I’m tired of listening to rap CDs only but often it’s the last resource for rhythm. Let’s say that I like the groove but not always the melody.

 In 1983 the Italian group Flowchart meticulously cloned the Change sound on their much overlooked album The New Harlem Funk / A Little Love A Little Wine. Can you appreciate this? At many points the concept was indeed similar to Change. The music was recorded by an Italian musician crew at the Umbi Studios in Modena and the vocals were taped in New York with session singers. Among them Michael Murphy, who arranged record deals for Petrus in America. Michael also sang backgrounds on The Glow Of Love. Former Goody Music musician Lele Melotti played percussion! Vocal arranger Fonzi Thornton, who penned the lyrics for several Change songs, was engaged to do the same for the Flowchart project. I was involved in this project as a bass player under the pseudonym of Dav. Mandingos. Flowchart's guitarist and songwriter Romano Trevisani was a friend of mine. I still remember the bass lines I played. I can understand that it was very tempting for Italian producers to follow the successful music formula we had worked out.

 Why did you have a pseudonym on the Flowchart album?  I couldn’t use my real name because I was exclusively engaged in Petrus’ company at that time. I was not allowed to play on any other productions but those associated with Jacques Fred Petrus. I think also Mauro Malavasi played keyboards on a Flowchart session but you won't find his name anywhere on the record, he too was signed exclusively to Little Macho Music.

  Who are your favourite artists? My all-time favourite group is Earth, Wind & Fire. A tremendous female singer is Rachelle Ferrell and very nice male voices are Luther Vandross and Michael Bolton. But also a lot of other artists, too many to express a special favourite. At this moment I’m mad about the funky music of the British group Jamiroquai!

 Are you still playing funky music today? I’ve assembled a music band for amusement. The group has eleven members among which three vocalists and three background singers. We play music from the seventies and the eighties and also tracks by Tower Of Power and Jamiroquai, one of my favourite artists. It’s really fun doing this.

 Can we expect a new Change album in the future? Yes that’s possible. I recorded several demo-tapes with new, unpublished material. But I’m still looking for the right lead vocalist.

 What are the essential qualities needed to become a good producer and what is your message to all the talented people who want to start a music career? We live in a very ambiguous world full of dishonest people. I advise musicians to persist, to write and compose songs. Playing music only is not enough unless you are a first class musician. It costs a lot of money to reach your goal but it’s possible in music. If you want to be a winner follow my advice.

Davide Romani, 15/12/2001, Ferrara
(Translation: Bruna Stefani, Francis Depuydt)

 

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Jeff Bova (Change)

  Could you explain the production methods of Petrus & Malavasi? The Italians produced, wrote and arranged. If they weren't the writers then they still arranged the songs. Fred would have already approved the song before it was being recorded. Mauro and Davide would lay down the groove first (drums, bass and synthesizer) and then would overdub. Each song would require different approaches but I know they had at least the song blocked out before recording. Terry Silverlight was the main drummer they used. He was a real tight player and funky too. After the basic was down, then other musicians - guitars, saxophone, horns, more keyboards etc. - would be added. There was however a difference with the recording process today. This era was pre-computers and -sequencers, so a lot of time was taken to make sure every player’s part was locked tight to the groove. One way was to slow down the tape and play the part at a slower tempo, then speed back up to normal afterwards. Finally the backing vocals and the leads were recorded and mixed.

 Why were the vocal parts always recorded separately. Isn’t it easier to record music with singers in the studio? It is standard practice to lay down the track first in this kind of music. Since it was very groove orientated and since the musicians all really have a great musical sense it works. A great musician knows where most things are going to happen. If someone went outside the bounds required, then Mauro or Davide would show us what they needed, based on their knowledge of what the song was. We never heard the vocals, except Mauro or Davide might sing over the track in the control room to make sure it was going to work. They would demonstrate how a part should go and then let you put your own spin on and play it yourself.

 Was J.F. Petrus a reliable businessman or a shark? Shark first, and a very reliable shark at that.

 Is it true that you were playing with Change in 1981 already? How come that Petrus picked you for the Change project?  That’s right. In 1981 we were introduced by a friend of mine, Pete Cannarozzi, who was playing with Roberta Flack. He was offered the job but was tied up with her so he recommended me. I did three world tours with Change and I recorded for the 1982, 1983 and 1984 albums.

 Was Jacques Fred Petrus ever present in the studio or was he a full-time office man? He was there in the studio. Petrus definitely had input into the over all vibe. Mauro and Davide were the detail guys. Mauro led of course but Davide did contribute a lot to every aspect, he was more involved in the making of the rhythmics whereas Mauro used to give his finishing touch. They were a very valuable musician team.

 Could you give a description of the mysterious Petrus since there are no photos available? He was indeed a very evasive kind of person. To my knowledge there are no pictures of him. Petrus was born in Guadeloupe and was of Italian descent. He wasn’t black but dark skinned. The man didn’t have a tall figure but acted tall. Stocky and muscular is my best recollection. He had quite a macho attitude and an intimidating personality. Petrus was capable of a good laugh and did have a charming way at times. But he thought highly of himself and he was very passionate. Very direct too. You knew he had the last word, he was the boss. He said to us once: "I AM Change!".

 Do you know more about Petrus' assassination? I heard it was a hit. Underworld/Mob kind of thing.($$$$?)

 What have you been up to since Change? Well I’ve kept real busy. I composed, arranged, produced and did session work for a wide range of artists such as Iggy Pop, Sisters Of Mercy, Bonnie Tyler, Cher, Michael Bolton, Celine Dion, Take That, Michael Jackson, Michael McDonald, Billy Ocean, Natalie Cole, etcetera. I also toured with artists Nona Hendryx, Herbie Hancock, Jeffrey Osborne, Akiko Yano and Cyndi Lauper. In my studio in New York I try to keep myself on the leading edge of the evolution in synthesizer programming and electronic synthesized instrumentation. In the last few years I‘ve picked up numerous digital instruments and effects generators. I realized that computers and synthesizers are not all separate things. Together with traditional keyboards they're tools for the musicians. The good musicians use the best and most versatile tools available that make the music sound better, and make creativity less encumbered by ‘mechanical’ limitations. I inter-connected computers, mixers, effects and instruments in a practical full rack system. But I keep my older analog gear in my system because I noticed that many producers are asking for acoustic sounds.

Jeff Bova, 08/02/2002, New York

 

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Mauro Malavasi

 I think that together with Jacques Fred Petrus and your mythical label Goody Music you were the first to introduce successfully Italian dancemusic in such a difficult market as the American. What are the differences between those times and the recent explosion of Italo house? The music is more or less the same despite the fact that there are less means available. There’s also more confusion today and record companies are becoming more suspicious toward new artists and new talents. Italo house was born from a lack of means and the triumph of the dance hits of the past with addition of the loop and some other original melodic ideas. Working this way reduces the costs more. If one has the possibility to try out oneself, then this might lead to interesting and intelligent products. Combining all elements to a musical creation surely isn’t easy. If one succeeds in realising a project which lasts 10 minutes, it means that it really is something valuable. It is true that after a first listen Italo house can appear as an amorf kind of music, commercial, without depth as youth would wish. But all things considered, I believe this music can contain more truth and valuable ideas than those big projects realised with astronomical amounts of money. This music is a witness of our time and one can also find a historic meaning in it. There are artists who succeeded in making a respectable product of it, like the project Black Box (album: Dreamland, 1990)  who were my companions at the conservatory (Rudy Trevisi, Sauro Malavasi, Raimondo Violi, Roberto Fontalan). I always knew they had talent, they’re well prepared musicians and an intelligent team that works. I’ve always supported them by saying that they should not weaken because sooner or later their time would come. Today they finally found a successful formula.

 It has been told that the success of Goody Music was the result of the Italian melody combined with American musicality, a formula suited as well for listening as for dancing. Italo house brought the Italian melody again to the fore in combination with an ascetic sonority, sometimes hard to listen to. The elements of the asked question remain the same: if the music is good, the public reacts positively. If the artists work with sense and enthousiasm, the public is prepared to ignore the flaws and deficient sounds. What interests people is the creativity. According to me it’s possible to get more out of the success of Italo house: it should be a stepping stone in sight of new challenges which could be reached by Italian artists if they believed more in themselves. Now however we go to an over saturation in the genre of house to the success of products which are even vulgar and rude. But it is an understandable phenomenon: for dancemusic it was a moment of less success, a bit like in 1982 and 1983. At that time I was in America and I experienced the phenomenon from first hand, it were the record companies who decided that the hour of dancemusic was over and that it was time for a revival of rock, heavy metal and pop. Today we are in a moment which is favourable for dancemusic, the cyclus can start again.

 What were the motives that led to the end of Goody Music in the US? One talked about a financial debacle. I left the states in late 1982. Honestly I had enough of it. I didn’t feel like an American, I couldn’t focus my life on making money. I also missed Italy too much. I’m an ardent nationalist you know. On top of that I came in conflict with Jacques Fred Petrus. At that time I was a bit more than 20 years old and I knew very little about the record business. There was actually a financial debacle and when I was aware of this I decided to quit.

 With Paolo Gianolio and Davide Romani you formed a very strong and successful team. Why didn’t you continue together. Is it true that there were rivalries among you?

This isn’t true. Davide, Paolo and I, we see each other often and we get on with one another very well. Paolo often works with Celso Valli, Mina and so many others. Davide often works for his own account. What concerns me, besides collaborations with Lucio Dalla I work with Rudy Trevisi.

 You are a real musician. Do you think that technology harmed musical creativity?

Instruments like samplers are not necessarely ascetic and cold, on the contrary they can be of great value for the creation process. They are a part of the technological baggage which is available and it would be foolish to neglect. I rather think that technology enlarged the possibilities of expression.

 In the days of disco group Change you discovered and launched Luther Vandross who is now a superstar in black music. Do you hear from each other now and then?

We are in optimal contact, so well that Luther included two of my songs on his latest Best Of album. Luther would have loved to work with me but I don’t like to be far away from home for a long time: I’m lazy and I’m scared to travel by plane. In the near future we will work together again. From the moment that I find a song suited for Luther I’ll propose it to him.

By Clay Montana - Appeared in Musica & Dischi magazine (Italy) in 1990, 
with thanks to Yves Le Page and Patrik B. Andersson.
(Translation: Dominique Lannoo, Francis Depuydt)

 

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